Dark Eldar List I think I am happy with.

So I wanted to try the new version of Army Builder and I am actually very happy with it. Here is the HTML list of what comes out of the new format along with the tournament view.

1850 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster - Nick Rose "Darkwynn" Dark Eldar 1850 Kabal of the Orange Blossom



Total Roster Cost: 1849



Archon- Kakashi Hosokawa (1#, 170 pts)

1 Archon, 170 pts = (base cost 60 + Huskblade 35 + Soul-trap 10 + Phantasm Grenade Launcher 25) + Combat Drugs 10 + Shadow Field 30



Haemonclulus Yokoi Shonon (1#, 80 pts)

1 Haemonculus, 80 pts = (base cost 50 + Venom Blade 5 + Liquifier Gun x1 10) + Shattershard 15



Elite: Hekatrix Bloodbrides (10#, 242 pts)

8 Hekatrix Bloodbrides, 134 pts = 8 * 13 (base cost 13) + Hydra Gauntlets x3 30

1 Syren, 43 pts = (base cost 23 + Agoniser 20)

1 Raider, 65 pts = (base cost 60) + Enhanced Aethersails 5



Incubi - Kaskashi Bodyguard and Saumrai (8#, 219 pts)

7 Incubi, 154 pts = 7 * 22

1 Raider, 65 pts = (base cost 60) + Enhanced Aethersails 5



Kabalite Trueborn- Elite Bushido (5#, 173 pts)

4 Kabalite Trueborn, 108 pts = 4 * 12 (base cost 12) + Blaster x4 60

1 Venom, 65 pts = (base cost 55 + -10) + Splinter Cannon x2 20



Kabalite Warriors- Bushido (6#, 120 pts)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 60 pts = 5 * 9 (base cost 9) + Blaster x1 15

1 Raider, 60 pts



Kabalite Warriors- Bushido (6#, 120 pts)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 60 pts = 5 * 9 (base cost 9) + Blaster x1 15

1 Raider, 60 pts



Kabalite Warriors- Bushido (6#, 130 pts)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 60 pts = 5 * 9 (base cost 9) + Blaster x1 15

1 Venom, 70 pts = (base cost 55 + -10) + Splinter Cannon x2 20 + Grisly Trophies 5



Kabalite Warriors- Bushido (6#, 125 pts)

5 Kabalite Warriors, 60 pts = 5 * 9 (base cost 9) + Blaster x1 15

1 Venom, 65 pts = (base cost 55 + -10) + Splinter Cannon x2 20



Scourges - Kazoku of the Blossom (5#, 130 pts)

5 Scourges, 130 pts = 5 * 22 (base cost 22) + Haywire Blaster x2 20



Scourges - Kazoku of the Blossom (5#, 130 pts)

5 Scourges, 130 pts = 5 * 22 (base cost 22) + Haywire Blaster x2 20



Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 105 pts)

1 Ravager, 105 pts



Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 105 pts)

1 Ravager, 105 pts



Validation Report:

b-2. Apocalypse Allies: Trusted Allies only; 1. Dark Eldar Army: Kabal; c-1. File Version: 1.11a For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; IA Ammunition: Use Improved Bombs, Use Advanced Bombs, Use Special Ammunition; b-1. Roster Options: Apocalypse, Generic Unit, Imperial Armour, Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission

Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules



Composition Report:

~[#c_Form_]: 0 (- - 0)

~[#c_Other_]: 13 (- - 0)

~[#c_Legend_]: 0 (- - 0)



Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

Mathammer- Correction for the masses

I have been stuck in this snow storm in Georgia, since Christmas eve and I was able to drive around 6pm yesterday night back to Texas. During my 22 hour drive and being awake 36 hours, I had a eureka moment or delusional episode, I don't know yet. When people are figuring out math for certain units to do XYZ they are doing it wrong almost 95% of the time and they are way off.

I had flashbacks of my North Korea Ex Special forces Business statistics teacher screaming at us when messing around with Bernoulli's theorem and dice and how to figure out results correctly or probability correctly.

Lets take the classic example of twin- linked assault cannons vs twin linked Lascannons. Everyone will say Assault cannon is just as good as a Lascannon to penetrate armor.


Let's Break down the normal formula we are going to use Space marines as an example with razorbacks shooting Landraiders AV 14

BS= Ballistic skill in percentage format such as BS 4 = .66 bs 3= .50 and so on

BS Twin linked
(4/6)+(1-(4/6)(4/6)= .878 time to hit for one shot.

To pen results
.16

(1/6)(2/6)= .05% for a damage result

.878 x .05 = 0.04 or 4% chance for a pen result for one assault cannon shot

Twin linked lascannon
BS
.878(2/6) = 29% for a damage result

Now this part would be correct if we were only rolling one single die at a time and that was the only thing we were doing. You can't just add 4% 4 times together to get a result of 16% chance. The reason is because we are rolling dice and even if we add enough shots together we can never go pass 100% chance because no matter what there is still a chance of failing even though it would be very slim. You take the 4% for the assault cannon and take it to the 4th power because that is how many shots it has and you have your correct result and add each power to the 4%.

Your results should be
to the first power = .04
second power = .0016
third power = 0.000064
forth power = 0.00000256
Total result should be around = .0416656 or 4.2% chance


So every time you shot that Assault cannon at an Av 14 or really anything above AV 13 your only going to get a 4.2% chance of doing anything to it and you wonder sometimes why the assault cannon is not performing the way its supposed to for you.

New Terrain for Wargames con

Its here! Enough pieces for 80 tables and it will be a great supplement to our current terrain.

I have loads of work to do after Christmas putting this stuff together but should be great.

General list and concepts

I have been throwing some ideas and list around for Dark Eldar and Blood Angels and just wanted to throw it out there to see what others think. These list are all around 1850.

1850
Its Raining....

Astorath
10 Assault marines with two melta guns Powerfist
10 Assault marines with two melta guns Powerfist
10 Assault marines with two melta guns Powerfist
10 Assault marines with two melta guns Powerfist
10 Assault marines with two melta guns Powerfist
Chaplin with Jump pack melta bomb
Chaplin with jump pack melta bomb
Sanguinary priest with Jump pack and powersword
Sanguinary priest with jump pack and powersword

Idea is to hold in reserve every time unless your playing Horde list. You drop on a right flank and you hit hard and keep on going. You should get a majority of your guys in with descent of angels and they should be able to drop super close together.

Blood Angels
Raven Rush
Librarian with unleashed rage and Shield
Storm Raven with EA
5 terminator assault terminators with three TH/SS
Fursio Dreadnought with Blood Talons
Storm raven with EA
8 Death company Power weapon and Powerfist
Death Company Dreadnought with Talons
Chaplin
10 man scout squad with sniper rifles
10 man scout squad with sniper rifles
Baal Predator with AC, Heavy bolters and Dozerblade
Baal Predator with AC, heavy bolters and Dozerblades



Dark Eldar

Urien
9 Hetrix BloodBrides with three Shardnets and Agnoizer
Raider with
Archon with Agonizer, Shadowfield, Combat drugs and Phantasm Launcher
8 Incubi with Raider
10 Wracks with Acothyst with venom blade and two luqifer guns
Raider
10 Wracks with Acothyst with venom blade and two luqifer guns
Raider
10 Wracks with Acothyst with venom blade and two luqifer guns
Raider
6 Reavers with two Heat lances
Ravenger
Ravenger
Ravenger

Dark Eldar Footdar

Duke
Haemonculu with Hex Rifle
20 warriors with two splinter cannons
10 warriors with Dark Lance
10 warriors with Dark Lance
10 warriors with Dark Lance
10 warriors with Dark Lance
Talos with Haywire blaster
Talos with Haywire blaster
Talos with Haywire blaster
6 reavers with two heat lances
6 reavers with two heat lances
6 reavers with two heat lances
8 Incubi
8 Incubi

Could drop one Talos for a Parasite and buy Inchor Injectors on the other two Talos.


Hellions Riding Dirty
Baron
15 Hellions with Stunclaw
15 Hellions with Stun Claw
Haemoncului WWB
Haemoncului WWB
Harlequins x 6 with Kiss's and Shadowseer
20 warriors with two splinter cannons

6 Reavers with two heat lances
6 reavers with two heat lances

Talos with Haywire blaster
Talos with Haywire blaster
Ravenger

I have 76 points left over and I don't know what to put or what to change to swizzle the list around.

Thoughts on some Dark Eldar list

I have been going through the codex working on some list that I would like to play at the 1850 point level. When I am building some of these list my first thoughts; are it needs to deal with Guard and Space wolves in a tournament setting everything else from there will be covered naturally by the codex. That being said here are some list.

1850 Webway Portal


Duke
Harlequinns x6 with Kiss and shadowseer
Haemonculus with webway
Haemonculus with webway
10 wyches with two shard neds and hetrix with agnoizer
10 wyches with two shard neds and hetrix with agnoizer
20 warriors with two splinter cannons
Talos with haywire blaster
Talos with Haywire blaster
Talos With Haywire blaster or just a parasite with spirit vortex

6 reavers with two heat lances
6 reavers with two heat lances

Beast Master unit with
5 Khaymere
1 clawed fiend
6 Razorflocks

I might have to do a little bit of math to drop 9 points but I can drop a Wyche or something to make the point levels.

Idea of the list though would be to deploy first or second it doesn't matter. Hold everything in reserve expect for Harelquinns with Two Haemonculus. First turn they move 6 inches and drop two webway portals in the middle of the table. They should be protected with the Shadowseer Veil of Tears ability. once from there Talos just come out and lock done certain threats from either IG or Space wolves and get into combat as fast as they can. 20 man warriors squad coming out with the Duke should wreck shop and kill a whole tactical squad if it can catch them out in the open. The Reavers should be able to go after certain units that need to die with precision coming out of the webway. Beast Master unit will be the HTH counter unit which should get rid of most things. I like this list because it doesn't mater if I go first or second and hedges out some of the risk that I need to worry about going against IG. The one thing I don't like about it though is I am unsure how well it will play against Guard and coming in piece meal. Talos can be strong but they can also be slow so its kind of a toss up.

Second list

Taking the leafblower concept to the Dark Eldar

This is list is more of a practice of list building and thought around the army.

1850 list
Ancient Haemonculus
huskblade, soul trap, Shattershard

Trueborn x4 with 4 blasters
Venom with Splinter cannon

Trueborn x4 with 4 blasters
Venom with Splinter cannon

Trueborn x4 with 4 blasters
Venom with Splinter cannon

Wracks x10 with two Liquifer gun
raider
Wracks x10 with two Liquifer gun
raider
Wracks x10 with two Liquifer gun
raider
Wracks x9 with Liquifer gun
Raider

Ravger
Ravger
Ravger

Optional:
6 reavers with two heat lances
or
take off soul trap and go with
5 Incubi in Venom.

The list is going back to point and click and putting as many weapons in the list as possible:

Count is
12 Blasters
13 dark Lances
36 or 48 Poison shots

80 Wracks HTH attacks with FNP

The list will give you some options but will be very fragile to Guard players. Depending on Deployment and how things go you could loose a majority of your units in the first turn but there are a lot of variabiles that come into that when playing Guard. Against other list such as Tyranids, Tau, Necrons, Daemons, Marines, Wolves , Blood angels they will have a tough time breaking down this list. Though, I can see Mech Spam Eldar giving this army a problem also.



Just to throw some quick concepts up and what I have noticed is that in an 1850 point level or smaller the Hellions are almost too expensive. If you take the Baron and 15 Hellions your spending 360 points on that unit. Now that unit is great don't get me wrong but you could spend those points more wisely in a Beast Master unit or in other areas where you might get a better bonus or another unit can serve a better function in your army. If you are going to do the Hellions your not taking much else so you need to either commit to that unit or go with something else. If you want to serve as a troop killer or MC killer your better spending those points on 20 warriors with two splinter cannons. You would get 30 shots at 24 Inches and if something came in range to rapid fire you would get 48 poison shots which is better then what the Hellions can do but Hellions bring that cross function in melee with the Hellglavies. If you want to take a unit instead of Hellions that can purely do Melee the Beast Master unit sitting at 250 points is a cheaper option that is more effective. It would still have 10 poison shots but the 5 khaymera , 6 razorflocks and one clawed fiend can put a lot of damage out and still take a beating.

These are just some thoughts and sorry if it seems like a ramble.

Darkwynn's thoughts on the Dark Eldar unit by unit break down.

I have been looking through for combos and there are some nasty ones that you would have to watch out for. FNP is super important to the army as once units start getting FNP they turn into MEQ saves which will allow them to stay around. That being said I walked through the codex messing around with point cost of each unit and different builds and this is what I found out.

HQ's worth anything:

Ancient Hamonculus with Husk blade, Soul trap, Shattershard
He can run out make any MC or IC take a toughness test with the shattershard or die with no saves of any kind allowed. Then if he kills one he turns into STR 6 on the charge with furious charge. So he will have a power weapon that inflicts instant death at INT 6. Yes please can I have another!

Hamonculus with Anmis Vitae and venom blade will be cheap Pain batteries

Hamonculus with shatter shard or a liquefier gun and a web way portal will be common also.

Duke: Allows you two rolls on combat drugs and low orbit raid to deep strike. He will be in a lot of combat drug heavy armies.

Baron: one of the other strong characters, +1 to go first and stealth to a unit is huge. Also makes Hellions troops which is great

Archon I think will be okay but for the cost of the other characters I just don't see him getting played a lot. If you do you are more than likely going to take a Huskblade, Soul trap, Shadow field, and combat drugs which makes him 145 points.

For HQ's in general I think it will be common to see one Special character or Archon followed by 1-3 Hamonculus to spread out pain tokens.

For Vect, I think he is too expensive and will suck. For me to seize the initiative I have to go second, and if I lose I have set myself up to get boned. We won't see any Vect builds at the top. Becuase in a 5-7 game format your going to fail that seize roll and depending on what your playing you could get crippled pretty quick. Too much of a risk to Hedge against.

Elites:
Incubi are awesome but do you really need more death and killing at 22 points? You take them bear bone without the Klavix upgrade.

Grotesque, I think they will suck in more ways than one on the table top. Too expensive and with the bulky rule makes them kind of hard to field unless you’re going to web way portal and if that is the case you have to worry about rampage. Let’s just leave these at home.

Wracks are awesome, bunch of poison attacks and can be made troops. Liquefier guns are great also because of d6 AP which means you have a good chance of making most things die. Plenty of weapon options for the upgrade character also. Oh they also start with a pain token which is great too.

Mandrakes I still like but I need to play test them I think they are the ultimate harassing unit but you need to get a pain token on them fast or they are going to die and become useless. They suck in combat also really but they look super cool.

Harlequins ... they are harlies nothing different. You can give them pain tokens but you would only give them one for FNP. You will see people with shadow seer in front giving cover to the rest of the army.

Trueborn are great too I think you will see a lot of common builds with them such as 4 blasters in Venom.

Bloodbrides are great also but I don't think you will be seeing them mainly because they are not troops and they can only come in ten man size units which mean people will want to put them in raiders.

Troops:

Warriors are okay. Dirt cheap loads of poison weapons and they can get Dark lances.

Wyches are awesome as always, I think you should take Shard nets every time with them as if you charge some MC or other tough units taking two attacks is huge. The Hetrix has to have an Agnoizer otherwise she won't kill anything and they will be in combat the whole time. Once the Wyches have FNP though they will be close to a 2+/3+ save in game system terms. Either you take them in a raider of 10 but problem is you can't get a Hamonculus with them to get FNP or run them in 15 man squads for Web way portals.

Fast attack:

Hellions are awesome and super all around great unit. 16 points, with the Baron above they will have a 3+ stealth save and then you give them FNP they are going to take a long time to kill. Along with the STR 4 with two attacks base is great. They have 2 poison shots a piece at 18 inch range which means they will kill most MC in large numbers. With Jump infantry they also have fleet which means you can get them where you need them pretty reliable. Stun claws are awesome but get ready for your opponent to yell and cuss at you when you take their IC out of combat with them on their hit and run move then next turn you leave him there only to shoot him with 8 blasters so he dies. Also, FC with combat drugs they can get up to STR 6 which means they can break down vehicles pretty well at that point esp. with the Baron who will be STR 7 on the charge.

Scourges they are a disappointment to me in a lot of ways. 22 points for that model is too expensive. You want to take them for the anti tank but then they just get more expensive and you have to take them in a ten man unit to get some decent anti tank. Your best bet is to take Haywire blasters so you can shoot at a vehicle in hopes to shake it or you can get other weapons but at 260 points for the unit, I rather take a Trueborn squad. They have hamstringed this unit pretty heavy.

Beastmasters here is another unit that can be really nasty. you can 5 beastmasters with 5 khymerae each which is a total 30 models that will have a 4+ INVUL and FNP that moves like beast so they will have great movement to keep with the rest of the army and they can put out a lot of attacks in close combat. I think Clawed fiends are meh but Razorwing flocks can be awesome with 6 attacks on the charge with rending. You take a full size unit and you have 60 rending attacks

Full unit of khymerae is 348 points
Razorwing unit is 210

Reavers, I am just going to say great on paper but they suck for everything else. If you are going to use them for Anti tank you need to take 9 so you can get three heat lances in there which is 234 points and they will die afterwards. It’s cool they can turbo boost 36 inches but once they get assaulted they are going to die pretty bad. You can run a 9 man group by themselves and wait for the land raider to come up close but I don't think these guys are really worth it.

Raiders same thing but Aether sails is cool for the 2d6 extra movement
Venom- Awesome for MSU units and you take the splinter cannon upgrade. That way you can put 12 shots of poison on anyone all the time.

Heavy support:

Ravagers same thing but moving 12 and firing everything is great plus they could deep strike and fire everything. Don't bother buying Disintegrator cannons they are useless.

Talos can be cool but I am worried about all the long fangs out there. I think it’s great to put a haywire blaster on the Talos instead. It keeps it cheap and you can shoot it at certain tanks to shake them and if you get lucky you can always immobilize or destroy it.

Cronos Parasite engine... These are a must have either you take one or two but having the ability to flip out two pain tokens a turn is crucial to scale the army quickly. I think keeping them at 100 points is the way to go so you have the large template and the flamer. That way you’re able to pass out two pain tokens out if the Cronos is in the ideal position.

Razorwing haven't' messed with but seems great
Voidraven haven't messed with but seems great. I would take the razorwing before I take the Voidraven as the Voidraven is too expensive.

Dark Eldar: No more Raider spam!

After looking at the Dark Eldar codex I think it is safe to say that Raider Spam armies are not going to work like they used because of point cost not with the raider but with the units will be using the raiders. There are some great units in the new book which is a huge improvement from the previous one. I am also glad they made Mandrakes and Hellions awesome. Wyches , I think got scaled back power wise a little bit with their special weapons choices and really you see a push from Phil Kelly to have more bodies on the field. The Pain token idea is a new concept for GW and it will make Dark Eldar tough as the army starts to ramp up they will only get stronger and having Wracks and other units in the list just for Pain Batteries is rough for a lot of armies.

That being said before the book came out I thought Dark Eldar were not going to shake up any of the meta game and IG and Spacewolves were still going to be on the top. Now that might be the case but working out some of these list I see them shaking up the metagame a little bit. Razorbackspam will be dead by mass hellion squads and mobile infantry. IG will have a hard time with killing DE with stealth and FNP throughout the army. There are ways where Dark Eldar can start their whole army with FNP and have 80 guys on turn one 6 inches from IG which will be really tough for any army out there to actually handle.

That being said here is a list going through the book that I worked out with a couple of buddies.

1850 Points
Baron Sathonyx
Haemonculusx 2 Venom blade, anitmas vitae
Hellions x 20 Stunclaw with upgrade
Hellions x 20 stunclaw with upgrade
Cronos parasite engine Spirit probe,sirit vortex
Cronos parasite engine Spirit probe,sirit vortex
Wracks x10 10 man squad with two luqifier guns wrack sarg upgrade
Raider for the Wracks aethersails
Wyches x9 + hetrix Blaster
Raider For Wyches
Wyches x9 + hetrix Blaster
Raider For Wyches
Wyches x9 + hetrix Blaster
Raider For Wyches

Stunclaws are a neat concept as you can take IC's with you when you hit and run. Next turn you’re still in close combat with your opponent‘s IC, which means they can't shoot at you. Hit and run again and you can Dark lance the HQ and if he isn't Eternal warrior you can instant kill him or if he is Eternal warrior just shoot the mass amount of poision weapons you have and kill him by thousand cuts. Parasites I think are going to be important for any army just to have the ability to pass out pain tokens. I want to try them out but I don't know how they will work out as you need to start killing something with them turn 1 or 2 to start passing out pain tokens otherwise they lose their effectiveness and you might as well get something else in there.